stationed in germany during vietnam war stationed in germany during vietnam war

At least in our case. Vietnam has come to symbolize certain things that arent necessarily true. Like all the other members, he was a draftee, and had come from a tiny town in Mississippi. Everyone else went directly to Vietnam, or a few were sent to Ft. Benning to attend the NCO School or Airborne Training. If you call it wrong, thousands of people could end up being killed, he said. They have rock climbing, paddle boarding, BBQ grills, a restaurant, hiking trails, and more. "I initially was stationed in Korea. Deploy network infrastructure faster and easier than ever before, with pre-packaged yet massively scalable infrastructure components for top packet and optical systems. In retirement he wrote Soldiering On in a Dying War focusing on the Vietnam drawdown and The Ohio State University in the Sixties.. Expert architecture and design solutions for private carriers, next-generation metro and long-haul optical networks, ultra low-latency networks, and Internet backbones. The conventional wisdom was that everybody carried a rifle, patrolled the jungle and faced death daily, but thats false, said William Shkurti, who served as an artillery officer in a remote area about 300 yards from the Cambodian border in fall 1970. Morale was bad, and there were racial problems, Shkurti said. One colonel joked, If we ever really got attacked, the V.C. We have four children, plenty of grandchildren, both biological and through marriages, and five great-grandchildren. Additionally, not all Vietnam-era veterans served in-country. That led to deep divisions between Washington and Berlin. I thought it would be easy, but it was actually tough, said Shkurti, who served as a fire direction officer and supervised a six-person team. Maybe they didnt risk their lives but they risked risking their lives, said Meredith Lair, a Vietnam War historian at George Mason University and author of Armed with Abundance: Consumerism and Soldiering in the Vietnam War, which examines the non-combat experiences of American soldiers in Vietnam. Anyone who served in the military during the war faced the possibility of being sent to Vietnam, though. Instead of breaking them up, Army brass sent them on tour. Mastering these complicated and delicate international arrangements, EUD accomplished a large and complex construction program, especially during the 1980s. You will now be able to tab or arrow up or down through the submenu options to access/activate the submenu links. WebThe United States Army has 40 military installations in Germany, two of which are scheduled to close. You pull together under a common enemy, Shkurti said. WebAs the threat of imminent invasion receded in the late 1950s, U.S. Army Engineers continued to build and maintain facilities that supported American and NATO combat power and housed and supported U.S. forces and their families, now permanently stationed in West Germany. But that tradition was set on its ear back in the late 1960s and early '70s, when the PFCs stationed overseas formed their own pop bands. So he was off to Camp Casey and the 9th Infantry Manchu's for 16 months, I was in the same unit a couple of decades after him. To prop up sinking morale and keep soldiers safe on base rather than heading into Vietnamese towns, the U.S. military strove to make bases as home-like as possible, Appy said. In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. Huge streams of paperwork came through military intelligence offices that allowed Lomperis a birds eye view of the war and how it functioned. They were selected during something called "The U.S. Army's Original Magnificent Special Services Entertainment Showband Contest" let's just call it a battle of the bands. You made a deal in Saigon, and the car arrived in Lawrence, Kansas, said Lomperis, who bought himself a $30 radio cassette player during the war, brought it home and kept it until about 2000. Dotted around US bases are numerous residential districts for American soldiers and their families, such as this residential district in Wiesbaden-Erbenheim. Ask me or any other serviceperson and they will tell you they are proud of their service, Shkurti said. File a claim online. WebThe conventional wisdom was that everybody carried a rifle, patrolled the jungle and faced death daily, but thats false, said William Shkurti, who served as an artillery officer in a remote area about 300 yards from the Cambodian border in fall 1970. Knowing that the threat is so close by is an incentive for people to work together. From the end of World War II until the end of the war in Southeast Asia, the Army component command in Germany, the U.S. Army, Europe (USAREUR), managed military construction in the theater with its own Engineer organizations. They deserve our respect. I say 16 months because his orders were involuntarily extended because he was in the ROK when the USS Pueblo was taken. As the Soviet system, like the Berlin Wall, collapsed in the late 1980s and early 1990s, it appeared that American and allied forces in Europe had accomplished their mission without war. During the war, these men felt like they were part of the military endeavor, but its not what the public celebrates. We had an Infantry MOS Soldiers on one of our Sheridan Tanks. Lockbourne/Rickenbacker Air Force Base in Ohio (906th and 907th Tactical Air Groups or 355th and 356th Tactical Airlift Squadron), Westover Air Force Base in Massachusetts (731st Tactical Air Squadron and 74th Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron), Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, International Airport (758th Airlift Squadron). Regardless of how we each served, part of our soul was left in that place with those who never came back alive, and with those who suffered and died after, and we should be honored for our collective loss if for no other reason. Some people feel the term Vietnam veteran should refer only to those who served in Vietnam, but the U.S. government defines them all as Vietnam-era veterans according to the Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 any veteran who served on active duty during the official time frame of the Vietnam War (1961-1975). I had an uncle that was drafted out of Brooklyn, NY. During the war, in-country combat and support troops could be identified on sight, said author Timothy Lomperis, who served two tours of duty in Vietnam in the Army and Defense Intelligence Agency. "All the branches of the armed services have always included music as part of their mission. You would think (serving in Germany) would be a great duty, but it wasnt.. Youth activity centers in Germany included this facility in Wiesbaden. Deliver vital engineering solutions, in collaboration with our partners, to secure our Nation, energize our economy, and reduce disaster risk. A rare photo of East of Underground in performance. As my husband likes to preach: expectation management.. According to the report, from 1972 to 1982, approximately 1,500 to 2,100 Air Force Reserve personnel trained and worked on C-123 aircraft that previously had been used to spray herbicides, including Agent Orange, in Vietnam. This large and rapid buildup required a tremendous amount of construction, carried out by Army Engineers and largely financed by occupied Germany. One would fly overhead about every 60 seconds, remembers the professor emeritus of political science at Saint Louis University. Long Binh was not a standard base, but it was home to the Armys Vietnam headquarters and showed the abundance and consumerism that was possible to create. One of the toughest parts of service was seeing people whose lives were ruined or lost because of the war, he said. 8) Bruges, Belgium. Patches, In 1968 you could volunteer for the draft and serve 2 years active duty. The US Army employed 17,000 American civilians in Germany in 2019. The thought of army music evokes a certain tradition say, trumpets and drums in the style of "Pershing's Own." Hollander says it isn't clear what the Army planned to do with these recordings, especially since so few copies of them have surfaced just three dozen in East of Underground's case. Veterans (including some Reservists) who state that they flew on or worked on a C-123 aircraft between 1969 and 1986 are eligible for the Agent Orange Registry. Since his older two brothers were already serving in Vietnam he was not allowed to go. The rule was to always go out in groups of two or three, but I often went by myself unarmed. Find out if you qualify for VA health care. The US soldiers also brought American culture to Germany. Is it if you might be in danger of a mortar attack versus projecting violence and delivering it to the enemy? A new compilation pulls together some of those old records it's called East of Underground: Hell Below. Heavily guarded Pershing-II rockets were brought to the US base in Mutlangen in 1983. There were swimming pools, bars, cheap booze, entertainment, dancers and strippers, American TV. Despite separate residential districts, there has always been contact and exchange between German and American families. Im also more respectful of what servicepeople endure. No matter where veterans served in Vietnam, they were a close witness to danger. His unit lost more men to overdose and traffic accidents in Germany than to combat in Vietnam. They also ate pretty well. My close friend had a similar experience in 69-70. The fatigues were faded and had rips. "So this was a very viable way to avoid active duty in Southeast Asia.". His unit in Germany lacked the leadership and necessities to get their job done, he said. 2018 Petabit Scale, All Rights Reserved. Thornton returned to school later in life and is now finishing his doctorate in business administration in the field of cross-cultural competency and conflict management. Out of our entire class I believe two, maybe three guys got orders for Korea. If you enlisted you would serve 3 years and chose your MOS. VA decides these claims on a case-by-case basis. They were clerk typists, cooks, drivers. Office of Accountability & Whistleblower Protection, Training - Exposure - Experience (TEE) Tournament, Military Exposure Related Health Concerns, War Related Illness & Injury Study Center, Clinical Trainees (Academic Affiliations), Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, local VA Environmental Health Coordinator, Find out if you qualify for VA health care, diseases related to Agent Orange exposure, Call TTY if you The mood around the country was not good for the military, not like today with cheers and applause for returning members. It's also a mystery what happened to the bands apart from Lewis Hitt, none of the members have come forward. David Hollander produced the compilation. He says it was completely random, some bodies had to go to 7th Army and his lucky number came up. Being a noncombatant doesnt mean they didnt feel scared, that there wasnt a looming sense of danger even onthe biggest bases that were considered safer areas, Lair said. The question became: When will someone tell what my war was like? Lair said. Why is Netflix pouring billions into South Korean shows? This includes individuals who performed service in the Air Force or Air Force Reservewho regularly operated, maintained, or served onboard C-123 aircraft known to have been used to spray herbicides during the Vietnam era. These facilities supported the large American and NATO forces stationed for almost fifty years on the front lines of the conflict between East and West, ready to confront a Soviet invasion. 7) Cologne, Germany. This massive program to improve American weaponry and conditions for troops and their families, supported by the commitment of huge resources to building the facilities required, was one factor in shaking the resolve of Soviet leaders and exposing the hidden weaknesses of the Soviet military and political systems. I personally met over the years quite a few guys in my neighborhood that enlisted in the Army, 3 years like you said, interesting thing was that not one served in South Vietnam, even up to two duty station changes, in example serving in CONUS then Panama, etc, I recall one guy I met in a bar who enlisted for 3 1967-70, an Ordnance guy, said he served his whole three years after Basic (Bliss) and AIT (Aberdeen) as wheeled vehicle mechanic at West Point, you know in the regular army component at the academy. The U.S. military presence in Germany peaked at 274,119 in 1962, nearly eight times its level last year. Attention A T users. None would be here if Vietnam never happened, so it creates bittersweet feelings but no regrets, Thornton said. Still, a ration card would allow personnel to buy $2,000 to $3,000 worth of goods, she said. This was because they had relatives (brothers) already serving in Vietnam. The liner notes of East of Underground: Hell Below conclude with a sort of benediction, lifted wholesale from the U.S. Army Field Manual: Because of the unique ability of music to communicate, bands will serve in different capacities of publicity and recruiting, and in the support of civil affairs. Soldiers bought goods with their ration cards, which were punched when purchases were made, Lair said. Even today, many see otherwise, but only at home., One place the guys in the rear and combat soldiers would cross paths was at rearward bases, which ranged from isolated fire bases less than a city block in size to major bases like Long Binh Post that resembled an American city, said Chris Appy, author of three books about the American war in Vietnam: American Reckoning: The Vietnam War and Our National Identity, Patriots: The Vietnam War Remembered from All Sides and Working- Class War: American Combat Soldiers and Vietnam.. Brutal tactics were the norm during the Vietnam War, and no one suffered more than the Vietnamese themselves, both in the North and the South. The guys with the gear in the rear. Good food makes people feel at home, Lair said. He was friendly with street urchins who would badger him for chocolate and other small treats. In Germany the U.S. military was protecting West Germany against the threat of Russian invasion, but it wasnt imminent, Shkurti said. The tensions between the two sides were demonstrated when US Army and Soviet Union tanks faced off in a divided Berlin. They proudly served their country, but were derided by combat troops as REMFs or rear echelon mother (insert expletive here), Appy said. Back at home over the decades, veterans themselves may have helped camouflage the roles they played during the war. He is seen here waving to his fans at Bremerhaven train station. To preserve morale, the ration program ensured that all personnel were able to buy highend goods, but it was limited due to the possibility they might resell goods on the black market, Lair said. At the end of the spraying campaign in 1971, the remaining C-123 planes were reassigned to reserve units in the U.S. for routine cargo and medical evacuation missions spanning the next 10 years. 4) The Alps Swiss, German or French. In-depth strategy and insight into critical interconnection ecosystems, datacenter connectivity, product optimization, fiber route development, and more. Boy, I thought I had it made, Shkurti said with a small laugh. One strong memory I have is how tough it was for the families, Thornton said. People dont understand how consequential the decisions were that were being made at headquarters, he said. The following individuals may qualify for benefits related to Agent Orange exposure: Veterans may file a claim for disability compensation for health problems they believe are related to exposure to Agent Orange residue on post-Vietnam C-123 airplanes. Its easy to forget how large a US military presence in West Germany and Korea was maintained during the late 60s and early 70s aside from the forces fighting in Vietnam. I can only speak from my own experiences. After that, the search was on for as many of these Army bands as they could find. Is it just the guy with the gun? Right, I got you, very interested to know that fine point. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. When I left Korea, the first thing I did when I got to Germany was to find Special Services, which happened to be right next to my barracks," Hitt recalls. If you have health concerns about Agent Orange, talk to your health care provider or contact yourlocal VA Environmental Health Coordinatorto help you get more information from a health care provider. One of the biggest lessons Dr. Especially from the minority groups, our black comrades, because they bore the brunt of the draft, were very unappreciated, and made the ultimate sacrifice above and beyond other groups, and for what? Thornton said. But as the confrontation between the Soviet Union, our former ally, intensified with the Berlin blockade and the outbreak of the Korean War, American leaders grew fearful that the next target of international communism was Western Europe, which contained our most important democratic allies and a rapidly rebuilding capitalist economy. He wasn't wealthy or connected in anyway and he also had an Infantry MOS and he was one of three soldiers out of his basic training platoon that went to the ROK. Many veterans struggled with feeling that their experience didnt measure up. "The song selection includes songs that were playing in the States, and very much expressed the countercultural sentiments of political resistance in this country at that time," Hollander says. "Bear in mind that these bands were all engaged in a show band contest in 1971 and 1972, and the winners of the that contest would then be able to tour Europe, and would also record an LP in the Armed Forces Network studios in Frankfurt. From the end of World War II in 1945 until the end of the Cold War in 1991, Army Engineers played a key role in providing the facilities for arming, supplying, training, and housing American soldiers and airmen and their families in Europe. From sundries like razors and cigarettes, apple juice and chocolate milk to diamond jewelry and Rolex watches, stereos and kitchen appliances, servicepeople could buy just about anything even cars for their wives or girlfriends back home, said Lomperis. In response to this fear, the United States deployed large forces to West Germany. visit VeteransCrisisLine.net for more resources. The songs East of Underground played weren't your run-of-the-mill patriotic marches in fact, some of them included controversial lyrics about race and politics. They lived in an apprehensive state. This often creates barriers to their full integration into German society. I thought, hot dog, going to go relic hunting. For website corrections, write to hqwebmaster@usace.army.mil. When we graduated we lined up in front of a building that you entered one at a time on one side and after getting your paper work you exited out the other side. The men and women at the main bases such as Saigon, Cam Ranh, Da Nang, Bien Hoa and Long Binh had a fairly sedentary life and plenty of downtime compared to combat soldiers, Lair said. In 1972 Thornton enlisted in the U.S. Navy at 17 and trained to be a hospital corpsman. HMD released its report, Post-Vietnam Dioxin Exposure in Agent Orange-Contaminated C-123 Aircraft, Jan. 9, 2015. I was in Infantry AIT at Ft. Polk Nov. 68-Jan 69. Upon graduating, I was the only one in our Company sent to Ft. Knox Ky.. All of the other Draftees in our class stayed at Ft Lewis in Infantry. Here are a few of their stories. Not enrolled in the VA health care system? As opposed to the goldbug society, or service personnel who were not interested in meeting locals and learning about Vietnam, Lomperis sought out opportunities to get off the base and interact with the Vietnamese. He also wrote the liner notes, which reveal a surprising fact: The U.S. Army spends an estimated $200 million a year on music, and is the largest single employer of musicians in the country. Only about one out of seven were combat troops, said historian Chris Appy, history professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst. I assisted a medical officer suture up a Marine after a bar fight who was so drunk he didnt need an anesthetic. "I've done my own searches on Google and so forth, but I cannot find anything," Hitt says. I would have been called a coward by others from the small town I grew up in, so I never considered not volunteering. "I was shocked when I found that out myself, but it kind of makes sense," Hollander tells Guy Raz, host of weekends on All Things Considered. The band formed while its members were stationed in Germany during the Vietnam War. Given the popular conception that being drafted during Vietnam was a guaranteed ticket to the combat zone, Ive always found it amazing how many of the people I know who served in the Army or USMC during the Vietnam War never actually went to Vietnam. We wore different uniforms. Veterans must show on a factual basis that they were exposed in order to receive disability compensation for diseases related to Agent Orange exposure. Saigon was considered relatively safe, but life wasnt easy and violence erupted. 2 weeks before we graduated they told us, " Class 17, RVN". It's kind of both complicated and disjointed, it was a struggle to be sure. The big problem was that Saigon was Sodom and Gomorrah. I had surgery shortly after the fire, then spent convalescent leave in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. When they got home they were all the same (veterans), but they did not all have an equal experience. They were touted as filling an important gap in NATO's deterrent shield against the Warsaw Pact. After graduating from Ohio State University in 1968, William Shkurti said, I knew I was going to be drafted so I enlisted. So many popular movies feature the combat side of war ground combat or maybe the air war. For military intelligence officer Timothy Lomperis, the constant whup, whup, whup of helicopters flying overhead is one of many things that stand out in his mind about the time he spent helping make critical war decisions in Saigon serving under Gen. Creighton Abrams, commander of U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam, from 1968 to 1972. Youre in the hot seat. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. We would take orders from Washington and from the five information streams (personnel, intelligence, operations, logistics and political implications) and use all that information to create an order of the day, Lomperis said. The American military presence in Germany began at the end of World War II. This lasted for 5 months, then we were told, Okanawa. I was able to get into a band there. and child care facility in Bad Kreuznach, West Germany (right). The Federal Republic of Germany became an important strategic location during the Cold War. The challenge was figuring out what the enemy would do. 6) Berlin, Germany. The entire emphasis is on the narrow combat experience, Lair said. They gave up their lives back home. In the late 65 through 1966, the Army Divisions outside of Vietnam, specifically CONUS and West Germany were hemorrhaging personnel for service in South Vietnam, these being primarily if not exclusively volunteers, these numbers had to be made good. If you dig into it, it becomes a very grey war, he said. He remembers his commanding officer Abrams as a political genius who turned the war around.. Even as the war drew down in 1975 and early 1976, the pressure was intense as huge numbers of men came home with addictions and injuries too horrible to really describe, Thornton said. East of Underground was one such band a multiracial, seven-piece group stationed in Germany at the tail end of the Vietnam War. While having a positive attitude about any PCS is important, its equally important to have realistic expectations. Grafenwoehr is a tiny base compared to almost anywhere youve been stationed in the US. Ukraine updates: Zelenskyy urges more effective air defense, Ukraine: Russia continues to target civilian sites, Ukraine's counteroffensive: Goals, opportunities, risks. Those aircraft were used for military airlift, medical transport, and cargo transport operations in the United States and internationally. Their story got eliminated. Abook describes and analyzes the important Engineer effort in Europe. 3. Lewis Hitt played guitar in East of Underground. An average of 311,870 troops were stationed in Europe per year during 19861990. This is the official public website of the Headquarters U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. I was in Boston when the Chelsea fire occurred in October 1973, received a meritorious unit citation for fighting the fire that consumed a large portion of Chelsea 18 blocks one way, 16 blocks another. To enter and activate the submenu links, hit the down arrow. Powered by Invision Community, Vietnam Era Draftees Stationed in W.Germany, South Korea, and CONUS, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. As the threat of imminent invasion receded in the late 1950s, U.S. Army Engineers continued to build and maintain facilities that supported American and NATO combat power and housed and supported U.S. forces and their families, now permanently stationed in West Germany. Along with its allies, the US had liberated Germany from the Nazis. I am focused on peace and conflict reduction on a global and local scale, he said. Ukrainian soldiers find remains of German WWII soldiers, LGBTQ+ rights situation at home drives young Slovaks abroad, Remembering the horrors of Colonia Dignidad in Chile. GRAFENWOEHR, Germany More than 30 veterans of the Vietnam War living in Germany were awarded pins Tuesday by the local Veterans of Foreign Wars post in recognition of their service. You had no say in what your MOS would be. 7th Army in particular suffered heavily, especially with loses of combat arms NCOs Then there was the two infantry brigades in Alaska, the 171st and 172nd, both gave up one battalion each for transfer to the 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii before it left there for South Vietnam, two full battalions had to be raised to replace the ones sent away. Then, there was the shopping. Thats not how the military works, though. Bronze Star and the Vietnamese Army Staff Medal First Class and is the author of four books about Vietnam including The War Everyone Lost and Won.. With pressures on USAREUR in the mid-1970s to reduce the size of its headquarters and budget, the command asked the Corps of Engineers to take responsibility for military construction in the theater. WebThe entirety of Germany was occupied and administered by the Allies of World War II from the Berlin Declaration on 5 June 1945 to the establishment of West Germany on 23 May 1949. He was with the 3rd Infantry Division in Schweinfurt. have hearing loss. The Vietnam War was a long, costly and divisive conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. Please switch auto forms mode to off. Ammunition storage facility, Heilbronn, West Germany (left); He now is an adjunct professor in the John Glenn College of Public Service. Napoleon said, An army marches on its stomach, and the U.S. military followed his advice. The Office of History, Headquarters, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the U.S. Army Center of Military History jointly published this book,Building for Peace: U.S. Army Engineers in Europe, 1945-1991 written by Robert P. Grathwol and Donita Moorhus. Both Germany and Vietnam were on the front lines of the Cold War. Supercharge your procurement process, with industry leading expertise in sourcing of network backbone, colocation, and packet/optical network infrastructure. Another difference was the sense of solidarity he felt. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. I worked in an air-conditioned office and wore khakis, starched shirts, spit-shined shoes and a belt with a shiny brass buckle. I was thinking I would have a better chance of determining where I would be sent.. WebHere are our top 13 places to see while youre stationed in Germany: (click on any city name below to learn more) 1) Prague, Czech Republic. For recreation there were basketball, volleyball, tennis and multipurpose courts, football fields, miniature golf courses, a driving range, an archery range and a skeet-shooting range. The sky swarmed with helicopters. In response the Corps of Engineers drastically reduced the size of EUD and reconstituted it as the Europe District. They wore fatigues and carried M16s. Those recordings were lost for decades, until a collector discovered an East of Underground LP in 1997. May 31, 2017 in MILITARY HISTORY DISCUSSIONS. Hollander says it's not a mistake to read a hint of resistance into the band's repertoire. Your message has not been sent. German Chancellor Gerhard Schrder, knowing the majority of voters supported him, ruled out Germany's involvement. I expected it would be worse in Vietnam, but it was a more satisfying experience, Shkurti said. The stress of military life was constant. Six out of seven served on bases. 2. There were more prostitutes than bureaucrats, and every kind of club and bar from high-class to low-class. I was going for many reasons, but the most important was to close a chapter of history I felt needed closing, Thornton said. He attributed it to where he happened to be standing in a formation. At the end of his service, Shkurti was an executive officer with the 6th Armored Cavalry at Fort Meade, Maryland. After discharge in 1976, Thornton took his 4-year-old daughter and pregnant wife home to her family and used the GI Bill to earn an a degree in allied health sciences from University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.