Coat both sides of the seam with the primer or sealer appropriate to the material, covering about 4 inches from the edges. Shower pan membrane typically comes in thicknesses from 30 mil (0. Measuring it at that point. Remove any residual mortar by hand or with the trowel . Once it dries, it creates a waterproof barrier over which you can install the tile. A surprise to many, this means the blocking and studs may need to be shaved down by the thickness of the liner material to accommodate it. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Then you have to waterproof the pre-sloped mortar bed with either a liquid applied membrane or a sheet membrane. Its important to not make a mess when filling the pan for the test, as a dry floor is necessary to ensure there are no leaks. If needed, cut any finishing pieces to size in order to complete the subfloor installation. DITRA provides uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. 3. The nominal 5/16 (8mm) thickness minimizes tile assembly thickness. There are no special qualifications necessary to observe a wet floor, so the inspector should have little to do other than nod at a full pan and a dry floor. DO NOT SAND, CUT, OR MAKE ANY CHANGES/MODIFICATIONS TO THE SURFACE OF THE SHOWER PAN WHATSOEVER. Allow mortar to cure overnight before installing the base or pan. With the trowel, taper down the mortar to the shower drain. The finished floors of showers can slope up to 1/2-in- 12; anything steeper could be a slip hazard. I plan on replacing some studs and sistering others. Prefabricated shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT, 3. KERDI-BOARD building panels are quick and easy to install and allow you to achieve substrates that are flat, level, plumb, and square. One popular way to create a shower pan is to install a pre-fabricated polyurethane or fiberglass pan. 2. His hobbies include horses, motorcycles, road racing and sport fishing. tar command with and without --absolute-names option. Top-quality cast iron shower pans are very costly yet also very durable and can last for decades. While the 1955 code permitted site-built pans only in special cases where the installation of a premade pan was demonstrably impractical, such pans are now common and have their own provision in section P2709 of the IRc. Although curbless showers that were originally meant for handicap showers has become more popular and more in demand. Should I use liquid water proofing membrane over a standard shower mud pan? Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 5. The downside of these finishes is that they arent themselves waterproof. Learn more about the essentials of waterproofing. Because of this, hand-fabricating shower pans can increase the chance of failure, and code provisions generally address two hazards: leaks and sanitation. If the subfloor is not flat and level, apply a self-leveling compound following the . If working with a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the subfloor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. The subbase must slope 1/4 in. Tile is installed over DITRA using the thin-bed method in such a way that the mortar becomes mechanically anchored in the square, cutback cavities of the matting. They might begin to flex a bit, which may need a fix. The thickness of the subfloor for a shower pan depends on several factors, including the specific requirements of your local building code as well as the finished floor material you will be using. Free-space on the underside of the matting provides a route for excess moisture and vapor to prevent damage to the tile layer above. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. I am putting in a whole new floor, joist and all, and the span is the 40". There is no difference between a shower tray and a shower pan. A recessed shower floor allows for the installation of a sloped mortar bed or a prefabricated shower tray that is flush with the rest of the bathroom floor. They can easily be cut to size with a utility knife, or may be extended with dry-pack mortar. The first step in a site-built shower pan installation and the first signal to the inspector of whats to comeis the two-part drain assembly. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Afterwards, a shower pan liner is installed on top of the slope bed, flattened and stretched tight across the shower pan and stapled into place roughly 6 inches up the wall studs. It is where visible water will escape and limit the rise of water up the walls. KERDI-BAND is a waterproofing strip used to seal all KERDI-BOARD butt joints, screw penetrations, and the connection between the KERDI-BOARD panels on the walls with the KERDI membrane laminated to the shower tray. Remove any dampness or debris on the . 22K views 1 year ago Installing an acrylic or fiberglass shower pan using a mortar bed increases the strength and longevity of your shower pan. 2 and 3 outlets are available making it simple to connect to standard plumbing. Did the Golden Gate Bridge 'flatten' under the weight of 300,000 people in 1987? in the area of concern. A surprise to many, this means the blocking and studs may need to be shaved down by the thickness of the liner material to accommodate it. Use a reciprocating saw to cut the wood, and pull out any nails securing the material with a hammer or pry bar. IMHO, if you will be tiling the floor I would put a water proof membrane under the entire floor and not worry about using pressure treated wood for the subfloor. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 75mm) up to 75 mil (1. KERDI-SHOWER-TT features a thin perimeter height (29/32" [23 mm] - 1-1/32" [26 mm]) that simplifies curbless shower construction. This is often just a piece of lumber laid in place with an additional length of liner draped over it. I'm going to be using the Kerdi shower pan and membrane to seal a steam shower. Alternatively, you can choose to install a cement backer board as your subfloor or as an addition for support and structure. Concrete Shower Floor (Pros and Cons & Design Guide) Like all drains, the intent is for bulk water to drain through the visible drain opening. This can be concrete or closed cell foam. Contact us: 888-472-4588 The KERDI-SHOWER-TS features an off-center drain placement and is 1-1/2" (38 mm) high. 7 Steps to Float a Dry-Pack Shower Pan - Fine Homebuilding These instructions assume you are building a shower pan on plywood subflooring, but if you are building a DIY shower pan on concrete slab, you will need to consider a riser kit. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Layers of a shower pan. Similar to the lower mortar layer that you created earlier, mix the mortar in the mixing tray, then dump it onto the floor of the shower. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. But a shower pan isn't just about function. A standard material used for a subfloor is going to be a cut to size plywood, mainly due to its availability. Synopsis: Code expert Glenn Mathewson explains the details required by code and modern plumbing standards when fabricating a shower pan, including the two-part drain assembly, the subbase material and slope, the curb height, and the liner application. Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel. How to Install a Mortared Shower Pan Field-fabricated shower pans (or receptors, as the code refers to them) have been acknowledged by plumbing codes at least as far back as the 1955 Uniform Plumbing code. When an inspector shows up to do the rough-plumbing inspection and sees a two-part drain in place, it triggers a future inspection that not every house receives: a shower-liner inspection, detailed in section P2503.6 of the IRc. Remove debris at the area of the subfloor where the shower pan installs, using a shop vacuum. Allow the mortar to cure overnight and proceed to the next step. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. If a plywood subfloor already exists, it may be redundant to add to the subfloor, which would only be increasing the height and add minimal support and structure. Not out of concern for spilled water but because it's a steam shower, so your overall bathroom is going to become a playground for mold. Do I need to mud under shower pan? - Liquid Image How to Prepare a Floor for a Walk-in Shower This secondary layer can be added on top of the running boards or concrete slab. When choosing your subfloor material, take into consideration how the thickness will effect the overall heigh of the built up shower pan in relation to your shower curb. Prefabricated shower tray: Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT, 3. rev2023.4.21.43403. DRY PACK SHOWER PAN For Beginners --- The Easy Way!!! DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. Due to its thin perimeter height, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal choice. Point drain with integrated bonding flange. Place the level across the pan or base to determine if it is level both ways. Nail the top of the waterproof material to the studs to prevent it from falling. A subfloor is the layer at the very bottom of your shower pan. The nominal 5/16 (8mm) thickness minimizes tile assembly thickness. First, am I correct in determining 1/2" as not enough support ? Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 4. Send us an email: , Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Made of soft polyethylene and featuring an anchoring fleece on both sides, KERDI is easily anchored to the substrate using thin-set mortar. Come join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. beyond and around rough jambs at the opening and at least 2 in. A typical walk-in shower built on the first floor of a home will be able to rest its weight on the joists without concern. Point drain with integrated bonding flange. Raising the Bathroom Floor | Schluter For hardwood finish flooring, which average about 3/8-inch to 3/4-inch in thickness, 1/2-inch to 3/4-inch-thick plywood is the preferred subfloor, though there are a variety of . What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? Kerdi Shower Tray ST Subfloor Requirements Remove the top section of the shower drain by unscrewing or unbolting it. A piece of plywood can be purchased in 1/2 or 3/4 thickness, and most cement backer boards will be 1/4, 1/2, or 5/8 thick. Which ability is most related to insanity: Wisdom, Charisma, Constitution, or Intelligence? In most cases, the job is easier with the help of an assistant. Sealing/Waterproofing between shower flange and hardiebacker, Short story about swapping bodies as a job; the person who hires the main character misuses his body. Built in place from various parts and pieces, site-built shower pans allow for an endless variety of shower-floor arrangements, including curbless, roll-in showers. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. A forum community dedicated to Do it yourself-ers and home improvement enthusiasts. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Unlike the surface of a concrete slab, wood subfloors may have irregularities or require additional fasteners at the area of a shower. If you're creating a custom walk-in shower, you must put down a layer of what is known as the deck mud, which is a 2- to 3-inch thick layer of concrete. And if the pan isnt properly sloped to carry water to the drain, water standing in the pan can become a petri dish of bacteria and possibly a slipping hazard. Premanufactured panels and pans as walk-in showers can be installed directly over the top of the concrete without any concern. above the finished threshold, whether its at the floor level or on a raised curb. The KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Subfloors provide the necessary support for the shower pan and prevent any shifting, settling, or warping in the future. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Increasing subfloor thickness under new shower pan, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. It is normal to have a shower curb/dam. How to Attach to a Concrete Ceiling Without Drilling, 12 indoor plants you dont need a green thumb to keep alive, How to Set an Acrylic Shower Pan in Mortar. Use the scrap two-by-four to help estimate the slope from the walls down to the shower drain. You then need to make that mark at the same height all the way around the perimeter of your shower walls (figure 2). Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. How To Install a Shower Pan - The Home Depot But you did not actually answer his question. Install Subfloor rev2023.4.21.43403. Wood floors first need to be able to withstand the weight of a custom walk-in shower. What is the difference between a shower tray and a shower pan? The objective of this piece of paper is to provide a layer of moisture-inhibiting protection on top of the wood so that when you put the first layer of your deck mud in place to slope to the drain, the wood does not soak up the moisture and cause the concrete to dry too quickly. Hardwood Flooring. Over a concrete subfloor use a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. In such a high humidity environment, I'd remove the existing sub-floor and put in pressure treated plywood in the entire room. Unless you waterproof the entire room floor, walls, and ceiling, steam induced moisture is going to penetrate SOMEWHERE to wood. How to Replace Shower Pans in Fiberglass Showers, How to Convert a Tub-Shower Enclosure to a Freestanding Shower, Life of an Architect: How to Build a Shower That Won't Leak, Today's Homeowner: Installing Tile Over a Wood Subfloor, The Floor Elf: How to Create a Shower Floor, Houzz.com: Doorless Showers Open a World of Possibilities, How to clean a showerhead, according to an expert. Build a high border around the perimeter of the shower, about 1/4-inch below the tile top perimeter line. The subfloor needs to be a minimum of two layers of 3/4-inch exterior grade plywood before you can move to actually putting down the concrete layer of deck mud that provides the slope and the base for the shower pan tile. Use tape and plastic to cover up the shower drain so that the mortar and other debris will not clog it. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Form the shower pan box frame with blocking between the studs. The entire bottom of the shower pan needs to sit on a flat, level surface. Make sure the surface is at a level. Apply some mixed mortar at the marked area of a low spot on the subfloor. Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines. The question of whether the code requires a similar liner over shower seats often comes up, but the IRC offers no guidance here. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. After the sloped subbase is in, the liner can be installed. The tileable covering support is placed flush with the top of the bonding flange and can therefore accommodate any thickness tile covering. In 35 years, he's gained expertise in all phases of residential construction, retrofit and remodeling. Shower bases must be sloped from all directions to point drains, therefore limiting tile selection to mosaics or other relatively small-format tiles. For professionals it looks easy, but only. In order to add support and reinforce the subfloor structure, you can add a secondary layer that the built up shower pan will sit on top of. He studied architecture at Taft Junior College. How to Build a Shower Pan - cabindiy.com Kerdi shower pan in a shower with 2 drains, How do I deal with 3" subfloor overhang and extreme joist notch, Medium term repair for cracked shower pan. If you use the DITRA and cover the seems that should be waterproof so there really should not be moisture getting to the subfloor. Mark the top of the coat hanger and withdraw it. Note: While the image below shows a wood subfloor, this is also achievable with a concrete subfloor. Whatever the drains shape and location, the sloped subbase is critical to moving bulk water from the shower floor, and the sneaky water that gets through it, toward the drain. TileTip.com is your premier source for tile information and all the remodeling questions you have before, during, and after the installation. The subfloor needs to be a minimum of two layers of 3/4-inch exterior grade plywood before you can move to actually putting down the concrete layer of deck mud that provides the slope and the. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 2. The liner is a PVC or other polymer membrane that rests on top of the preslope. common sense would dictate that the same minimum 1/4-in-12 slope is critical to keep bulk water moving. >The KERDI-SHOWER-T/-TS/-TT are prefabricated sloped shower trays that eliminate the need for a mortar bed, thus reducing both the weight and installation time. One side will be resting on a wall, the other side the joists will be hung using strong-ties or the like. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Sign up to our newsletter and get exclusive deals you wont find anywhere else straight to your inbox! Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Remove any residual mortar by hand or with the trowel. It is going to be 4 tall or so from the bathroom floor. KERDI-LINE is an elegant, low profile linear floor drain specifically designed for bonded waterproofing assemblies. The grate assembly accommodates a wide range of tile thicknesses and allows lateral and tilt adjustment as well. 2) The pre-slope under the pan liner channels any water that gets through the tile and grout into the weep holes in the drain assembly. The system can also be customized with floor heating cables to create a warm, luxurious tile floor. Bring all of these elements together using the profiles and fasteners specifically designed for KERDI-BOARD assemblies. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. The hyperbolic space is a conformally compact Einstein manifold. 4. Hassle with 5/8" first layer, especially with OSB, is that it's very easy to strip the hole with the screw. The classically-inspired KERDI-DRAIN is offered in a variety of grate finishes and accommodates a wide range of tile thicknesses. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Quikrete makes two products that work well when building DIY shower pans. Use tile spacers to maintain proper distance between tiles. Shower basins are called pans, floors, or receptors. per ft. toward weep holes in the subdrain. DITRA-HEAT-DUO features an integrated bonding fleece that provides sound control, as well as a thermal break. Where theres no curb at the threshold, as in a curbless design, a temporary curb must be constructed for the leak test. With the utility knife, create slits for the four bolts on the shower drain to protrude upward. Acrylic shower pans are the least expensive type of pan and can last for about 10 years before there could be a crack or leak. Determine whether the floor needs to be leveled and mark the floor at the low spots. It is important to remember, if you choose a cement backer board, you will need to use the manufacturer recommended backer board screws. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. CTRL + SPACE for auto-complete. The top shower pan floor covering is the tile. We also smartly list products and services to help in moving your project along. Place a 3-foot level on the floor facing from right to left, and again facing from front to back at the area of the pan. DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. The lower area of the shower walls should be open, with no cement boards in place yet. Toe-screw 24 blocks to the subfloor every 12 inches and 1/2 inch away from the line to allow for the thickness of the hardboard siding. Profile that forms a splashguard in curbless showers. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Seems like 2-3 inches. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA. Made of polyethylene, DITRA also serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. Tiling Project Guide. Various sizes are available to accommodate both center drain and perimeter drain placement. How to Build Shower Pans (DIY) | Family Handyman Learn more about the essentials of waterproofing. This may require the services of a qualified design professional (e.g., architect, engineer, etc.). Similar to the lower mortar layer that you created earlier, mix the mortar in the mixing tray, then dump it onto the floor of the shower. Install a pre-slope. Made of polyethylene, DITRA serves as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. To install the subfloor, whether it is the primary or secondary layer, you will need to accurately measure the length and width of your built up shower pan, also taking into consideration any non-square corners. Stand in the base or pan to determine if the subfloor is stable. The KERDI-SHOWER-LT/-LTS sloped shower trays feature integrated waterproofing and are designed to integrate with KERDI-LINE drains. Remove the subfloor material. Yes, it is important to lay subfloor down before installing a shower pan in the bathroom. Bathroom Subfloor Thickness | DIY Home Improvement Forum Your email address will not be published. Prepare subfloor and drain plumbing. thickness, and include a range of dimensions such as: 5 ft. x 6 ft. 6 ft. x 33 ft. 5 ft. x 40 ft. 4 ft. x 50 ft. 5 ft. x 50 ft. 6 ft. x 50 ft. See Recessing the Shower Floor Technical detail here. If you're working against an existing concrete floor where tile is going to be applied directly onto the surface of the slab, there are a couple of options. Thus, additional measures must be taken to protect wall cavities from water and vapor penetration. The shower pan should be slightly larger than the drain assembly. Fasten it down with roofing nails or staples. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 5. Code requires that lining materials in field-built shower pans slope 1/4 in. The studs were rotten, the subfloor was rotten, and the top of the joists (in some places) were weak and rotten. Depending on the size of the shower it doesn't always work, but it saves time if you can work it out that way. See Recessing the Shower Floor Technical detail here. Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Waterproof, multifunctional tile substrate and building panel. KERDI is specifically designed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in conjunction with ceramic and stone tile coverings. DITRA is a polyethylene membrane with a grid structure of square cavities, each cut back in a dovetail configuration, and an anchoring fleece laminated to the underside. This slope is later refined with a second bed of mortar. Install KERDI-LINE adjacent to the wall, or at intermediate locations of your shower floorand then choose the drain grate that best matches your dcor and desired finished look. Step 1: Reinforce the shower pan. Uncoupling and waterproofing membrane: Schluter-DITRA, 4. Align the longer edge of the sheet at one side of the . He spent more than 15 years as a third-generation tile and stone contractor before transitioning into freelance writing. His has been published online through GTV Magazine, Home Anatomy, TravBuddy, MMO Hub, Killer Guides and the Delegate2 group. Has the cause of a rocket failure ever been mis-identified, such that another launch failed due to the same problem? First by hand, then with the trowel, spread the mortar around the base, mounding it higher around the edges. New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. Frame the shower curb. The code offers a number of choices for this application, from the time-tested but relatively outdated use of lead sheets and hot-mopped layers of asphalt felt to the common plastic liners used today. While the KERDI-SHOWER-TT shower trays are specifically designed for curbless showers, the KERDI-SHOWER-T and KERDI-SHOWER-TS shower trays, which feature thicker heights (1-1/8" [29 mm] - 1-1/2" [38 mm]) can also be usedseveral options are available to best accommodate your project. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? KERDI-DRAIN grates are available in four stylish designs and multiple finishes. Did the Golden Gate Bridge 'flatten' under the weight of 300,000 people in 1987? 1 Answer Sorted by: 2 1/2" is a bit thin to span that distance, although it should not be a problem with a concrete slab above it. The only time you won't need a pan is if you have a fully tiled wet room space without a shower enclosure. The combination of these four essential functions allows for the successful installation of tile over a wide range of substrates, including plywood/ OSB, concrete, gypsum, heated floors, etc. Most homes will consist of a standard subfloor constructed of running boards laid over floor joists, a plywood layer over the running boards, or if on a first floor, the subfloor can be a concrete slab. Install the liner over the preslope & wrapping the curb, extending a minimum of 6" up the wall. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. What do I do about the Missing Stair Nosing and Short Stair Tread. Actually will be basically a fully tiled wet room. The tile is set in a thin bed of mortar or thinset. for 2x6 joists w/ a 40" span under the shower pan? We benefit by helping you find what your looking for and are paid a small amount when a purchase is made on a sellers website we link out to. We have to step up to go in shower!!! Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. Let the tile fully cure. I am putting in a whole new floor, joist and all, and the span is the 40". Make sure the shower pan is aligned . Your email address will not be published. 3 Shower-Pan Choices for a Solid Tile Floor Installation, Video Series: Tile a Barrier-Free Bathroom. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. After you have put down a double layer of plywood to provide the base for a custom walk-in shower pan, you need to cover the subfloor with a layer of tar paper, in this case referred to as a vapor barrier or a moisture barrier. The first step is to determine the depth of the shower pan. While the latter do not require any special considerations since the panels and pan are installed straight on top of the subfloor and drywall, custom-build walk-in showers require physically challenging preparatory steps in order to get the floor ready for the shower itself.