john ortberg family photo john ortberg family photo

I hope you are right about this. No quid pro quo to substantiate. They have much easier prey in a church setting, as the sheep expect the shepherds to be godly, trustworthy and above such things as looking to get laid. The inner motivations and thoughts of an individual. I treated my childhood dog like a doll. Im not saying any of that is right. An accusation could hurt the church, the members and even Christianity. Bingo. . Me too. On our travels last summer one of the high points for my husband was to attend Willow Creek Church. Which is why the Internet is SATANIC WITCHCRAAAAAFT and their on-lookers are the WITCHES! I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. Tonight we wept in sadness for all the people closely associated with this story, yes, even for Bill and Lynn and for their adult children. Or God is discipling yet another church. Later I did not know how or who to talk to and began to second-guess and doubt myself as to its significance; that is, until years later when I began to hear stories of other similar encounters. I will keep the website updated. What if the Elders had sent Hybels home on a sabbatical while they allowed for a truly independent investigation 5 years ago? So they fell in line with the One World system, befriended evil people and embraced Satans (the worlds) ways. This has not only damaged women but also affected men, like my husband, who looked up to Bill Hybels as a positive role model. ) bugs me. He got GAWD on his side Its The guy at church who wants a side hug. Cant people be sincere and caring without all that? How many people do you need to hurt with your judgement and accusations before it is enough? I have already commented on that nonsense that just went up. But it is the structure, really. Brought so many people to Christ. Thus, this person offering an opinion that things may have been taken wrong in Hybels case is one thing, but offering up details/takes on her say-so on action of J Ortberg putting him in less than a flattering light appears at first blush to potentially be from the wagon-circling camp which in and of itself is why many dont speak out instantly. Religious, but spiritually destitute. Creepy hug? He did so for a reason and it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. I dont know if you have any experience with megachurch staffs or not. Yet, if this person is free to say what was done by J Ortberg and offer her (non-intimidated, threatened) perspective on it, how can she conflate that with others coming forward to offer a perspective on their experience? Two publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels in wake of misconduct allegations Tyndale House Publishers InterVarsity Press (Chicago Tribune). But, still I try not to broad brush. It is when people naively do not realize that everyone has an agenda, not to be cynical, that they fail to ask important questions and perform essential (to them!) . I will tell you that the deception factor and the manipulation that went on with mega church staff is why I am not very understanding about anything that happens in them. I have going to professional society meeting for over 30 years, and hospitality suites are expected/ the norm. The church is now thriving with new leadership, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism. Did we demand transparency? I think I said in another thread, there are hugs and there are hugs and we can generally tell the difference. According to Lavery, the family had a group chat where they cheered on the Ultimate Frisbee team his brother coached. And his successor (and successors drinking buddies/dudebros) ended up causing a civil war that broke the kingdom apart. "FOUR MONTHS LATER: OnlySky is something of a disappointment. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in ScriptureDo not be the disciple with the sword. The works of an evangelist is to call people to Jesus. @ Davis and Natasha: Lavery had high hopes when he planned to meet with his brother, who is in his early 30s and a graduate student at the University of California, Santa Cruz, in the fall of 2019. @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. Hence, it is easier to build a close-knit cult of people who really dont know each other that well. I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband. That was the exact thought I had while walking the dog this morning! If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. Lets put all our conjecture up about the retracted affair as well. The only thing you can blame other people for is making his deception known. I do not buy Hybels IT excuse for one second. I though this was sarcasm but maybe she really was arguing that Bill should have that level of influence on anyone-let alone everyone he was bringing along. yikes! In response, he prayed with the volunteer and sent him on his merry way with a counseling referral. Leaders who walk in the dark are not representing Jesus but rather the same Devil the original Pharisees did. Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. "I have considered my seventeen years as pastor here to be the greatest joy I've had in ministry," Ortberg said in a statement. "[18] In his books, Ortberg has described his own desire for importance and success, and how achieving them did not ultimately bring him happiness. by Sarah Scoles. Thankfully, lately that cover-up system is starting to crack. Clear rating. * Scripture does not discuss it that way. Very doubtful that this model arose magically, unprompted out of Bill Hybels head, anymore than Billy Graham rose to international prominence unaided. It is important to note that sexual attraction to children does not mean that a person will act on that attraction, and one who admits to the attraction and is seeking qualified treatment from an expert, has begun the necessary work. not even then 4 years.?? Its a thing now. I looked it up and way down on the list it says rarely it might cause some to do things they dont remember. The church is now thriving with new leadership, honoring Jesus instead of greedy indiscrete nepotism. Taught many lies in the churches even to the point where we unknowingly give homage to the devil. Its very complicated. But I dont think the view of hell is really the issue for the church leaders highlighted here. Ortberg. He could claim that she was making up her story. My point is not so much whether this is right or wrong, but at the way this thing was done, yet is inaccurately perceived as a random event. [16], A central theme of Ortberg's teaching and books is spiritual formation, the transforming of human character through authentic experiences with God. I did this research a while back, so if Im remembering right, a few things I read indicated that the evidence destroyed/withheld would automatically be assumed to be against the legal case of those who destroyed/withheld it, and the jury was instructed that they were required to view the situation that way. She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. In the meantime, Crossway is still publishing and selling C.J. Bills own admission appears to have been made at a meeting with certain Elders and Willow Creek Association Board members. Unfortunately, some of us are coming to the conclusion that this is what much of The Church really is: a thought reform institution. Take responsibility for your actions and the role you played! In the summer of 2018, one of John Ortbergs volunteers at Menlo came to him with a serious problem. Every believer has a unique calling. Billy Graham, doing the work of an evangelist, told people the good news. What we have a problem with is a man who by his own admission did a lot of untoward things, things that are the very definition of a sexual groomer, and did so behind the scenes while maintaining the aura of one who should be emulated. Dee is correct with respect to Hotel rooms. At that time, Ortberg did nothing to ensure that his son stopped his volunteer activities with minors at Menlo Church. Then, from 1990 to 1994, he served at Horizons Community Church ( currently known as Baseline Community Church) based in Claremont, California. At CertainPublicSchool kids have been caught in the rest room actually having sex as well as dosing on drugs. And to think that Willow Creek notables have been hanging out with him! https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Cults-Insidious-All-Consuming-Organization/dp/0814404936. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.. They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. The creep factor never ceases to amaze me. Sadly, I feel confident that this has not infrequently been engineered by the profiteers running these circus-show churches. Its the same thing my university wrings their hands over. It is the Spirits job to convict and change.. Thank you for adding some lightness to this overwhelming news. It was part of his long time abuse of her. Not even the great prophets got such responses. They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth. You summed up my whole opinion of this mess. When his father refused to act, Lavery wrote the initial email to church leaders expressing his concerns, detailing his conversations with his brother and his father, along with his brothers long history of work with children. I dont have to be a fan of Nancy Ortberg to take her testimony seriously. He wanted to find out if she was still angry with him and what she would do about it if she was. Eventually she tried to make a move and placed her hand on my thigh. But one thing I know, we have a choice in our behaviors. Or suddenly you find out 2-3 (and later 7 or more) women have had similar experiences. Some group members believe it is safe, even healing, for people with this attraction to work with children. Publishing is a major part of a celebritys platform. I have books by Bill Hybels on my shelves, and really thought he was one of the good ones. We are not gullible fools. Thanks for sharing the link. @ dee: Dee, Ok, So Nancy Ortberg was fondled, hugged, touched. Other WCC members are posting this letter on fb. And every word in it, every allegation, is completely irrelevant to the issues that forced Bill Hybels into an early retirement. She was still hoping that he had changed. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. People so manipulated, though wounded, never quite understand what is causing the pain. Nothing substitutes for diligent study and wide reading. "The charges against me are false," says Hybels of former friends' "collusion.". That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. LOL I sure never did on the few creepy weirdo hugs I was subjected to! Kudos to these two publishers. On the other hand, the youngest son John III, AKA Johnny was born around 1990. Wonder who taught Billy to dress like a leader. She thanks you too. Im thinking of 2 comments right now from over a year ago in which you reposted comments you attempted to post elsewhere. One of the grandkids hugs on the yorkiepoo all the time. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. People of Willow Creek, save your church by demanding resignations from he full Elder Board and lead pastors. Seeker-sensitive (also called seeker-friendly or seeker-driven) churches are very easy to visit. As a consequence, I would urge caution in using thw word heresy with respect to this particular topic. The exact same mind control tools create social justice Warrior Churches as are used to create mega seeker churches or the monolithic SBC franchise. Pastor John Ortberg of Menlo Church preaches in June 2020. Who are the people our Creator said were His people?, Are you one of those Serpent Seed believers? ), Come join us onFacebook,Tumblr,Pinterest,Twitter, and our forum atrolltodisbelieve.com! Instead of turning the other cheek or choosing kindness in the midst of your disappointment, I see anger and a willingness to hurt other people. Ortberg gives us some eyebrow raising information. Rob Bells questioning of Hell has earned him a spot on the heresy list. If he did nothing wrong, he wouldnt have done it unless you really buy *he did this to save the church* meme. Also please check outour Graceful Atheist podcast interview! It was not well written It was a farce and all those behind it need to get a reality check. At times I have even wondered if it is not even being used to distract from addressing the root of the problem. The headers which wont be encrypted give info on sender and recipients and dates. Rather, I think it is their twisted view of both God and humanity. How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. That isnt what I was talking about and I should have clarified. I never knew Ortberg personally. But I can certainly tell when a guy does it to cop a feel. Christianity Lite, theyve taken the salt out of salt. Wow!!! I was deeply wounded and deeply burdened with guilt and self anger. . The solution? If you have to go along with the silliness (never with evil) make sure you are being paid. Not atypical. Courtesy Menlo Church. And it shall come to pass that, like as I have watched over them to pluck up and to break down and to overthrow and to destroy and to afflict, so will I watch over them to build and to plant, saith Jehovah. (Jeremiah 31:28), @ Davis and Natasha: . @ brad/futuristguy: Guess thats why he had to resign in ignominy.) Read the Bible. Thanks Dee. I found Jodie Walle comments very interesting, and did help me to understand the culture. My bad for not being back in touch with you. If it is seeing a good friend after a long time, a family member, etc, understandable. At one mega, the pastors alleged other woman was the missions director. No quid pro quo to substantiate. At the time, she was a self . I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. I read it Daily and Journal too. Why? @ Forrest: I have said that I do not appreciate victim denigration which is inherent in her supposed expos .Enough is enough. What shes done more than anything is reveal that Willow Creek had/has a culture and work environment that is not guided or governed by wise, common-sense policies or practices for accountabilityespecially when it came to male-female relationships. And us adults have to learn not to be so easily snookered by evil experts masquerading as wonderful people and pass red flags along to children. What do you think that Rabbi from Tarsus meant when he wrote For Satan himself can transform himself to appear as an Angel of Light? Well, to show you how prophetic I am, I predicted years ago that most mega churches would be car lots or community centers by now. How would I know. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I dont have any memory of doing and saying those things to her that night!. [7] Upon discovering that his father had not shared this information with Menlo Church Leadership or the Elder Board, Lavery went to the church's leadership himself. For the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Now, if we mean that believers at Willow Creek (or outside of it) will grapple with Mr Hybels and the Elders sins in these matters as they themselves become more sanctified, I can see that perspective. Alvarezs investigation, which lasted about six weeks, included interviews with childrens ministry staff past and present and a review of volunteer records. Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. on and off, until mid-2019, according to the spokesperson for the Ortberg family. I wonder if he knows? Just a followup to my above comment. Missionary Man Just went through the same unity emphasis, as if pointing out items needing accountability, oversight and review constituted disunity or unwarranted lack of confidence in church leadership. B wrote: She lives with an adored and adoring husband named Mr. Captain and a sweet, squawky orange tabby cat named Princess Bother Pretty Toes. When we finally did start talking, everyone called us liars. Just wonderin, Similarities Sounds like wing ding anti Semitic tripe. And David C Cook did not remove Tullian Tchividjians books at the time, though when I checked just now, it appears the only one they carry is the biography of Billy Graham for which he wrote the foreword. Its safer. I think I hugged my coworker of ten years when he retired, Paul actually recommends we greet one another with a holy kiss.. Sometime in the next two weeks, I am going to write a story about a woman who was raped by her husband. available around the clock along with staff present to awswer questions, etc. I hope they will be held accountable and step down. In 2014, Menlo left the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) to join a breakaway denomination called ECO, A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians. . Only the Lord knows, way above my paygrade to say with any certainty, but observing fruits and the lack thereof is not above my paygrade. Lawrence Krauss is a famous atheist and liberal crusader and, in certain whisper networks, a well-known problem, according to author Peter Aldhous, in his article on *BuzzFeed*. It alarmed me to learn that Nancy Ortberg was also the subject of Bill Hybels unwanted attention and actions. Two general statements: He was in an admittedly horrible, untenable position and he made the wrong choice.. But thats over the course of 42 years of ministry!